[Lightly edited for flow and clarity.]
Dr. Horace Huntley:
This is an interview with Mrs. Sheyann Webb-Christburg from Birmingham Civil Rights Institute's Oral History Project. I'm Dr. Horace Huntley, I'm presently at the Birmingham Civil Rights Institute. Today is January 29th, 1998.Ms. Christburg, I would like to thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule from Alabama State, driving all the way to Birmingham to come sit and talk with me today.
Sheyanne Webb Christburg:
Thank you for giving me the opportunity.Huntley:
Welcome to Birmingham. I just want to start by asking you some general questions about your family. Your mother and father, were they originally from Selma?
Webb:
Yes, both parents were from Selma. They were born and raised in Selma. There was a little town outside of Selma called Tyler, Alabama. That's basically where my father was born and raised. Of course, my mom was in the area of Tyler, and in between the town of Selma. So primarily, they were born and raised in the Selma area.
Huntley:
How many brothers and sisters do you have?
Webb:
I had eight brothers and sisters. I had a brother to pass, and now of course there's seven of us.
Huntley:
Where do you fit in there? Were you the youngest or oldest?
Webb:
I'm the knee baby.
Huntley:
You're the knee baby.
Webb:
I'm the baby girl, and I have a baby brother.
Huntley:
Okay. So there are two younger? One younger than you.
Webb:
Yes, my baby brother, one younger.
Huntley:
Okay. All right. We had to get that knee baby together. What I'm attempting to do is just to get a picture of what it was like growing up in Selma. Let me ask you about your mother and father, what about their education? How much education did they have?
Webb:
My parents were not as fortunate as some of us to have had the opportunity to finish high school or even go to college. However, my father, he went as far as the 10th grade, I believe, and my mom progressed to the 11th. My parents worked very hard raising us as children, and they primarily went as far as they could from an educational standpoint, and they had begun to work in the factories to support their family.
Huntley:
Did both of them work in the factory?
Webb:
They both worked in the factory. My father worked for a table company, which was Cleveland Table Company, for so many years. And my mother worked for a sewing company, which was Selma Apparel, for so many years, but right now they're both retired and I guess —
Huntley:
And enjoying life.
Webb:
— enjoy, trying to enjoy life.
Huntley:
Right. They still live in Selma.
Webb:
They both still live in Selma.
Huntley:
Where are your brothers and sisters? Are they still in Selma?
Webb:
I have a brother who's living in Montgomery, two brothers who are presently living in Montgomery. I have a brother that is living out in El Paso, Texas. And I have one brother that's presently living in Selma. However, I have a sister that's living in Detroit, Michigan; and my oldest sister who's living in Atlanta, Georgia.
Huntley:
So you're somewhat scattered now.
Webb:
Yes, we are scattered.
Huntley:
Do you have family reunions?
Webb:
We have family reunions, but not as often as we used to. As a matter of fact, we're in the process of planning a family reunion coming up for the year 1998, this year.
Huntley:
Are they planning to have it in Selma?
Webb:
Yes, we will have it in Selma.
Huntley:
That's a big business lately is family reunions.
Webb:
It is. Family reunions are great, but the whole agony of the planning aspect of it can become complex sometimes, but I think in spite of all that, it's a great thing to do when you can bring the family together enjoy rather than stall, which most families always come together for.
Huntley:
When you were growing up, your mother and your father were working. You started school, you were next to the baby, so all your brothers and sis had gone before you. What do you remember about starting first grade in Selma, and what school did you attend?
Webb:
I attended Clark Elementary School, which was a school a couple of blocks over from where we lived in the George Washington Carver Project Homes. I could vividly remember my childhood growing up at that time. First of all, me being in the first grade, even in kindergarten, I was what you may call a unique or active child. I just liked the fact of being involved. And even though I was poor, I was the type of child who wanted to be a part of some of the other things that I saw some others doing, but perhaps couldn't afford to.
Huntley:
Like what, for instance?
Webb:
For instance, programs that took place at school. I always wanted to be out front of a part of it, and even though I did not necessarily know that I had a particular talent at that particular time, I just wanted to be a part of whatever was going on at school. I would really try to execute my participation through my teachers.I could remember many times when I used to talk to my mom about me participating on a program. And of course, my parents always supported me with that, but there were a number of times where expenses had come into play. Everybody liked the idea of their children participating, but they always wanted them not only to do well, but to look good. And many times when my mom and my dad would express the idea of whatever my needs were, or my discussing that with them, if they didn't have it, I did not even hesitate to discuss this with my teachers, so that really didn't make a difference with me. I was just, as a child, I always wanted to be out front and be active.
Huntley:
And you were not bashful about asking people to assist you in doing whatever you needed to do.
Webb:
Whatever. Whether it was through my teachers, and primarily, I really can attribute a lot to my teachers as well as my parents because they had the opportunities to get to know me well as a student. Based upon my track record with growing up in school from the first grade through the sixth grade, it had become a thing where I didn't have to ask, they asked me. And of course, as I grew up from the first grade through the sixth grade, I could vividly remember me participating in a number of programs which really enhanced my development and personal growth.It also made me become the person that I was, and I considered myself a very inquisitive-type child. Many people often ask, "Well, how did you become involved in the civil rights movement at such an early age?" And even though I didn't quite understand what was happening at that time at that particular age, I was so inquisitive that I wanted, I knew that something was happening unusual, and I wanted to be there, and as I grew in that movement, I became more knowledgeable of what was happening.
During that time with all of the turbulence and the confrontations, the challenges and the changes that took place and you being in the midst of it, it wasn't like you just volunteered to do this. It was high risk. It was high risk for adults, and even more for children, but even in spite of all of that, with what I saw, with what I heard during that time, and being right in the midst of it, I wanted to still be a part of that.
Oftentimes, even being told or threatened by my parents, and even sometimes by my teachers that I shouldn't have been there, or I shouldn't go, I was determined to be there and that I did, so you might could call me a disobedient child at that time. But for that particular cause based upon those circumstances at that time, I'm very appreciative, and I feel very fortunate to have done what I did as a child, and to be a part of that history.
Huntley:
Even prior to getting involved in the movement, you sound as if you were outgoing, you didn't meet any strangers, and you were one of those children who would demand in a child's way that things would happen the way that you would want them to happen, or you would be involved. Say for instance, if there was a play at school, you would want to be involved in that play. Are there individuals outside of family that had an impact upon your involvement? Teachers particularly.
Webb:
I think there were several people who contributed to impacting my life in the most profound way, not only as to me progressing attitude wise, educational wise, but I think in a real sense, even prior to the movement being active or becoming active in Selma, I think there was something very unique about my personality. Where it derived from, I couldn't really tell you.However, I do believe that the movement really elevated that particular element, and I say that because Dr. King impacted my life in a very, very significant way. First of all, I knew that I was poor, but even in spite of me being poor, Dr. King helped me to recognize that because I was poor, regardless of whether me being poor, not only me, but those others who were unfortunate in some incidents that I still could do what I wanted to do as long as I strive for that.
Education was one of the things that Dr. King related to my best friend Rachel and I who lived next door to me. At that particular time, I didn't know the true importance of it, but as constantly as he uttered those words to us each time that he talked to us, the more significant and the more I wanted, or the more I was motivated to want to go to college and want to finish high school.
However, as I progressed and as I learned more, and experienced more through the movement, I was one of the kids who went back to my instructors to let them know what was going on, because of course, as my parents and so many others along with my teachers, if they had become involved in the movement at that particular time, they would lose their jobs. But even again, in spite of me being disobedience, it was like I was the communicator between my families and my instructors as to what was going on because I was there.
Huntley:
You had mentioned that as a young child, you really didn't understand what was going on. You knew that something was happening, and that you need to be involved in it. Prior to movement, did you understand segregation? Did you understand the condition that the Black community was in relative to the white community?
Webb:
Well, in terms of understanding segregation to its fullest, I may not have as a child prior to the movement, but I knew the difference.
Huntley:
You knew what you should do and what you shouldn't.
Webb:
I knew the difference between Black and white.
Huntley:
Did you ever question?
Webb:
I always questioned that. Many times when I had gone to the doctor's office with my parents and we had to sit on one side that always indicated Blacks, and then of course on the other side it would indicate whites. Even with the board of faculty, so many other circumstances that we read about today with various restaurants, even going to various stores. And so I can remember that vividly, and I always questioned that. And even though I was given different responses at different times, I knew it was wrong.As I grew in the movement, I had become very knowledgeable as to why that was happening, and that's one thing that really helped me to grow from an educational standpoint, as well as a reality standpoint because being in the midst of it, and meeting the challenges as well as listening to Dr. Martin Luther King and so many other freedom fighters who had come to be a part of that movement and deal with the struggles of segregations and injustices and equality at that particular time.
Being a child, it was something that didn't take overnight for you to really learn about it if you didn't know it, you could just see it. And each time that I was in the midst of it, of course I had become to recognize and realize exactly what the movement was all about.
Huntley:
What are the events that stand out in your mind more than any others as it relates to your involvement?
Webb:
Let me just say this before I answer that. There were many experiences that I had that have stood out in my mind that would never leave me, but one of the incidents that happened that I'll never forget is the Bloody Sunday.
Huntley:
Where were you on that march in relationship to the front of the march?
Webb:
I was in the middle part of the march.
Huntley:
Were you on the bridge?
Webb:
Yes, I was. During that particular march, there were hundreds of people who marched on that particular day, but there were enough of people who could cover the bottom of the bridge and still overlap almost down to the bottom, and I was right in the middle in the midst of the marches.
Huntley:
Were you with any members of your family at that particular time, or do you remember who was right there with you? Because what was your age at the time?
Webb:
At that particular time, I was approximately seven years old. I was with the late Margaret Moore, who was one of the teachers who had the courage to participate at that particular time. Many threats had been made about the possibility of what would happen on that particular day, and even in spite of that again, I was still determined with me being afraid. As so many others who were a part of that movement, I was still determined to be marching.
Huntley:
What were you afraid of?
Webb:
I was afraid of what would happen. Prior to that time, with many instances, particularly at mass meetings, people spoke about how people would be beaten. There had been some on other marches that had previously taken place who had been beaten or abused in some form or fashion. I heard that as a child on numerous occasions.However, this was the time that I knew in my mind that something would happen. I was afraid because, first of all, I knew I wasn't supposed to be there as a child. And secondly, based upon the fervored faith, the way that people prayed, the way that they sung, and I'm not just saying just a prayer and they were finished with it, there were many instances that took place prior to that march, and it was what you saw in the midst of the people who were part of that movement. On their faces, you saw fear on their faces, but yet at the same time, you saw determination, dedication, commitment.
And I think that the people who were actually a part of that movement at that time, it didn't matter. Dr. King said that, well, first of all, being in the midst of that movement, you had to have a certain commitment. You had to have a degree of a certain type of faith, you had to have a degree of willingness, and to have something to sacrifice even if it was your life. That is what I saw. That's what I saw people doing as a child, and the expressions, the spirits, the determination, those type attitudes, the attitude or readiness is really what taught me the most about the movement at that time.
I felt that whatever I knew that at that particular time as a child, I knew that first of all, it was a struggle between something right, something wrong that should be turned into right, and I wanted to be a part of it, not just for myself but for my parents and for the people that lived themselves and that attitude started exuberating within me just being in the midst of it, not understanding quite all of the ramifications that were involved, but I knew the difference. I knew the difference between, again, Black and white, and I knew the difference between right and wrong, and I actually saw it. I not only visualized it, I experienced it as a child every day.
Huntley:
What was that day like for a seven year old? What was the experience like? Can you explain what you saw? At the particular time that you had to turn around, what did you do?
Webb:
Well, it was scary. From the time that we were asked to mobilize ourselves in front of Brown Chapel Church, there was some communication between me and the lady, Margaret Moore. I had indicated to her that I wasn't going to march, and I told her I wanted to, but I didn't have permission to.However, when the marches had kneeled down to pray, I remember standing on the sideline being indecisive. Still with fear, not only for myself, but for them particularly and as they had gotten up and they had begun to march and start singing freedom song, I remember running back up to her, joining her in the march, clenching her by her hand. I told her that I wanted to go, and she took my hand and I marched with her, and I could —
Huntley:
Rachel [West] with you?
Webb:
No, Rachel and I, my best friend had discussed this, and of course, Rachel was not as — I guess I was more disobedient in a sense than Rachel. Sometimes, she wanted to do some things that we had talked about as friends and as children, but she listened to her parents more, and I was basically the opposite.However, I could remember as we made our way to the Edmonds Pettus Bridge on that particular day, the closer we got to the bridge, the more frightened I was or had become as a child. I could remember when we had reached the Edmonds Pettus Bridge, and of course, we started praying. After we were asked to turn around, all I could remember was tear gas that had begun to burst out into the air, and I could see hundreds of state troopers and policemen with billy clubs and teargas masks and troopers on horses.
And when this tear gas had really started being burst and flamed into the air, I could just see people running. Of course, I started running, trying to make my way home. I could see the horses, and at some point as everybody was trying to run, several people were running in different ways, but there were several people who were running in my direction as if they were trying to make their way back to Brown Chapel AME Church.
As I had begun to run, trying to make my way back home, I remember Reverend Hosea Williams [SCLC leader] picking me up and my feet was still galloping in his arms. I looked to him, and I told him to put me down, because you're not running fast enough in my own childhood worries. And there were some people along with Hosea who was still accompanied, not only me, but those others who were frightened, trying to make their way home.
But I remember getting home that particular day, and my parents were standing at the door along with so many other neighbors because it was obviously that something was going to happen that day and when we were running trying to make our way back to Brown Chapel Church, and myself trying to make my way back home, I could hear sirens, the ambulance sounds, and people crying. It was very frightening.
I got home, and my parents were standing in front of the door, and I just ran up to my door and ran completely through them and making my way up the steps, and my mom had come behind me trying to comfort me, and I just cried. I was very frightened, and with what I saw and visualized on that particular day, I'll never forget, it'll never leave my heart neither my mind. That was the most traumatic experience of my life, particularly being a child.
Huntley:
Would you allow your children to be involved in a movement if there's a movement going on of that nature today?
Webb:
I've been asked that question once before, and I believe if there is a given cause that would require the commitment and the dedication, and if they felt that it's something that they needed to do or wanted to do for that cause, even in spite of danger, I may do it reluctantly, but I believe I'll let them know.
Huntley:
Seven years old.
Webb:
At seven years old, and I say that because I'm hoping that a movement will come now that will give not only young people that type of spirit or attitude, but people as a whole. We haven't had a movement like that since that time where people were united and came together for a given cause. Even though it took the Bloody Sunday march for us to really mobilize more people from all over the world, and under most circumstances, it takes crisis situations and circumstances for us sometimes to realize really what is happening.I'm very honest with you when I say that if at any point that I had children and there was a cause that came about that really would give them the attitude of wanting to or the attitude that I had in a sense I would just be glad for that movement to come again, for children and people to mobilize themselves. I think we have had so many reasons for that movement even after the civil rights movement right now for us to have that type of attitude, and based upon those circumstances, I would do that.
Huntley:
[Your] book Selma, Lord, Selma suggests that there was a rather intimate relationship between yourself, Rachel, and Dr. King. Can you just describe to us what that relationship with a seven-year-old child and you had the opportunity to sit on his lap, talk, I mean, what was that like?
Webb:
As I mentioned to you earlier, there were so many experiences that I'll never forget, and one of those experience was having the opportunity to meet Dr. Martin Luther King. As I look at it today, myself and Rachel at that time being kids, we had no idea of what type of man, or what type of person or the history that would come behind our experiences, or being given the opportunity to meet him. But obviously, it struck a chord with us even at that age.Meeting Dr. King, I mean anybody who has had the opportunity, adults or what have you, should feel very fortunate and grateful, but we were even more fortunate.
First of all, Dr. King saw people regardless of what background or what walk of life that they had come from. He saw people or person just as they were, and that's how he treated us as he met us on that particular day. I remember Rachel and I playing in front of Brown Chapel AME Church, and there were these cars that had driven up. Of course, it took our attention and as they had gotten out of the cars, we went over towards them.
One of the men that was with Dr. King said to us, "Do you know who this man is?" And we had no inkling of who none of them were. So he said to us, "This is Dr. King."
Of course, we didn't know who Dr. King was. As they proceeded to go into the back of Brown Chapel AME Church and they were about to have a meeting on that particular day, we followed them. As we followed them, one of the men said to us, "Well, you all can go on now because we're about to have a meeting."
Dr. King immediately said to them, "No, let them stay." We followed him on into the church, and as we got into the church, Dr. King had begun to give us some attention as children. He came over to where we were and he asked us our names, and of course we gave him our names and then he said, "What do you want?"
And Rachel and I looked at each other hunching our childish shoulders, and we didn't know how to respond to that question. He asked us again, he said, "What do you want?" And we looked at each other again, he said, "When I asked you what do you want, your reply should be freedom." So he asked us again the third time, he said, "What do you want?"
We said, "Freedom," in our own childhood voices.
He said, "Say it louder." So we said it loud. He asked us again, "When do you want it?" We didn't quite know how to answer that question. He said, "When I asked you when do you want it, you say now." So he asked us, "What do you want?"
And we said, "Freedom," loudly.
He said, "When do you want it?"
And we said now, this was our first acquaintance with Dr. Martin Luther King. We sat there for a while, and after he had gone into his meeting, he told us he wanted to talk with us more. We left, and we started playing like children would normally do, and we came back because we wanted to talk with him more. And when we had come back, Dr. King told us he was coming back to Selma and he wanted to see us.
Now, even though we didn't quite know the significance of this man, and really what he really represented at this time, but we knew that he was somewhat very important, and we couldn't wait to get home to talk to our parents about this. I could remember talking to my parents about it and they didn't have the expression on their faces that I thought that they should have had, and of course, I had become to realize why as I grew in the movement because at that particular time Dr. King was a profound leader that people didn't necessarily dislike, but they didn't like the idea of the disturbance that it could cause with them as a community or people. And of course Dr. King with the leadership that he provided, not only in Selma, but all over the world intervened in so many ways with the agenda of people being concerned about their jobs, but yet, he was fighting for them in so many instances, from an economic standpoint, from a social standpoint.
But of course after having met Dr. King on that particular day, I couldn't wait to see Dr. King when he had come back to Selma and there were many pamphlets that had gone around in our communities from SCLC announcing when Dr. King was going to be in Selma for the mass meeting, and of course, my parents didn't want me to be there. I didn't do a whole lot of discussion about it. I knew that I was going to be there, and I recall sleeping out of my house on that particular evening, and I remember going into Brown Chapel AME Church and sitting on the front row and singing along the people that were there, the various freedom songs and —
Huntley:
How far was your home from the church?
Webb:
My home was right in the back of Brown Chapel AME Church, not far, it was a half of a mile. But I remember Dr. King making his way to the pulpit there. I remember the people who would gather sitting, clapping their hands, and singing a freedom song, and all of a sudden everybody had begun to stand on their feet and look in one direction. And as they looked into that direction there were a crowd of people who were following Dr. King as Dr. King made his way to the pulpit, and you could just see the glean, not only in Dr. King's eye as he made his way to the pulpit, but if you just looked around, you could just see a certain spirit that was exuberated all over the church. People had begun to clap their hands loud and even stomp their feet, and they went from one freedom song to "mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord" and they sung that song, and Dr. King just stood there, and every now and then he would raise his hand.And then when everybody had quiet down after Dr. Martin Luther King had taken his seat, everybody was just waiting for him to make his speech, and I'll never forget the first time that I had the opportunity to hear him speak. I didn't again quite understand all of the things that Dr. King talked about, but what I remember most about Dr. King was talking about the difference between injustices, Black and white, and that in spite of people doing you wrong, you still have to turn the other cheek. And at that particular time, I couldn't really analyze it as I did maybe six or seven months from that time, but I knew that he had a righteous heart, and that he was coming there to start a movement to help people in Selma, whether they were Black or white. Based upon the way that Dr. King spoke, you knew he had a very Christian-like attitude, and I knew at that particular night that I then was a part of the movement.
Huntley:
Were the other members of your family involved?
Webb:
No, they did not become involved until a later date when others had become more comfortable with joining the movement.
Huntley:
How many times do you remember seeing Dr. King being in his presence? Were there many other times after this time?
Webb:
Sure. There were many other times. During that time, SCLC of course played an intricate role in there. There had been several meetings at Brown Chapel Church with the absence of Dr. King. There had been many with his presence and —
Huntley:
Were you disappointed when they had something and he was not there?
Webb:
Very disappointed, but I always asked, when was he coming back? And those times that I knew he was going to be there, I would always be there. So there were many times that they had strategy meetings at Brown Chapel Church, and those were the times that we had a private time in a sense to really communicate with Dr. King. And a number of times when in the midst of him doing what he had to do, he still took time to give us that attention. He talked about education, us getting educational. He asked us questions about our families a lot, but he always told us that he will be back and he wanted to see us. And every time that Dr. King would make his way back to Selma for the mass meetings, we had made it a point as children to make our way to the pulpit and sat on his lap.
Huntley:
Did you ever question why your parents were not involved?
Webb:
I questioned that particularly when I really didn't quite understand a lot of things, but of course, as I grew in the movement, I understood more about their reservations and so many other things, but it didn't take me long to recognize and realize, or even to be educated about the significance and the purpose of what the movement was all about. I grew up fast in the movement, which made me become very more understanding as to the position that not only my family took with others as well. In a real sense, as I grew in that movement and as I had become a part of that movement, it was like I was not only in that movement for myself, and for others, but particularly for my parents.
Huntley:
You were nine or 10 when Dr. King was assassinated. Where were you when you heard the news?
Webb:
I had come from a dancing class. I remember making my way into the door, and my mama, my dad, and four other sisters and brothers were there and they had their attention on the TV as I made my way through the door. But as soon as I had walked in, all of them turned their heads to me and I saw this unique expression on their faces, and it displayed that something was wrong. Before I could really ask the question about what was wrong, there was a special bulletin that had come across the TV saying that Dr. King had died, and at that particular time, I couldn't... I had so many different mixed emotions as a child.The first thing that I did was, of course, cry. I went to my room, and I thought about all of the memories as a child with meeting Dr. King and some of the things that he taught me as a child. I started writing about my pain on Dr. King. I guess in the midst of me dealing with my emotions at that particular time, of course, it was nothing that I really understood. I knew he was dead, I knew he was killed, and I knew it was wrong, and I'm not saying that I understood that death, but what I did understand was what Dr. King said. He would rather die for what he felt was right, and I remember him saying on a number of occasions from the song "Oh, Freedom. Oh Freedom, before I'd be a slave, I'll be buried in my grave and go home to my Lord and be free."
And that's what Dr. King's commitment, that's what his sacrifice was all about. He talked about it, but I had no idea that it would happen that fast because it was really like I was just really getting to know somebody who had instantly been killed in the struggle for fighting for us as a people, and for the rights of humanity. But that was the type of commitment that Dr. King had, and the sacrifices that were involved in it to that point. That helped me, and as I continued to grow in the movement as a result of his death, that helped me to even realize even more of the importance of my doing my part, and me having a commitment to serve in my community.
I think that that's one of the things that we as a people are lacking today based upon the commitment, the willingness, the visions that it takes to deal with some of the challenges that we're faced with in our community, even as a nation, we're not willing to have that same type of genuine sacrifice, and be willing to serve. One of the prime examples with that that I like to express to young people that I have the opportunity to speak to anywhere that I go is exercising the right to vote and looking forward to that.
Huntley:
After Dr. King was killed, you keep saying you grew up, you were growing up at that time. What kind of activities were you involved with after '68?
Webb:
After '68, I was involved in various activities. For one thing, desegregation had come into play, which had an impact still on young people as well as adults in my community. My brothers and sisters, they all went to predominantly Black school. At that particular time, as I continued to grow in the movement, based upon what I had experienced, I was determined to go to a white school. I wanted to meet that challenge knowing that I had that right, and that I could face it, and I did that. Doing that, I was determined also not to just go to the school but to be active, and at that particular time it was very difficult if you were Black going into a segregated school and wanting to be a part of something. It just wasn't anything that you possibly just had the qualifications for. You had to battle with the Black and white issue, and it was an unfair system.
Huntley:
Were you one of the first to go into the white high school?
Webb:
I was not the first, but I was among a few. Being among the few, there were a lot of hatred, and so many other things that we had to continue with on a day to day basis. I could remember many times when my parents tried to support me in dealing with some of those problems where I was the only Black in five of my classes. And of course, being the only Black in five of my classes, I wasn't the type of student that just sat there because I was Black, I was active, and I tried to exemplify my character and my personality and showing them that I could be on the same level that they were —
Huntley:
Were you active in extracurricular activities?
Webb:
I sure was. I had the opportunity to be a cheerleader, and I was among a few at that particular time who went out for cheerleading as a Black. That was quite difficult, but I made it. Even in spite of me making it, there there were many times that I was spat on at different games, being called names, so many different things as it relates to racial areas, but that still helped me to grow. I think that because of that movement, it really contributed to me not only becoming more active but more understanding. I really didn't, even though I experienced a lot of prejudice I didn't look at it from a hatred standpoint. I really just dealt with people just as they dealt with me the way that they dealt with me, those who were cordial to me, I would be cordial to them in spite of.
Huntley:
What was the process of becoming a cheerleader?
Webb:
Well, being a cheerleader for the YMCA, as I again grew up, I was a cheerleader for the YMCA which was predominantly Black. And then going to junior high, high school, trying out for a predominant white team, there was certain things that you had to execute from a physical standpoint. In real sense to make it all clear, you know Black folks had soul, and I had to actually train myself to take form as to the type of... With the try-outs for getting through, making the cheerleader at that particular time, and it took some extensive training for me to go from one transition to another.
Huntley:
Mask some of your rhythm.
Webb:
Right. And I did that, and I did it well but even in spite of that, part of the process first of all was academics. You had to have a certain GPA. It was a streaming process even before you did the practical part. They tried to give me a very difficult time on that, but I made it through that after my parents had to come over a number of times. I had all of the qualifications, but there were many things that were put into place to keep me or to discourage me ever since, but I was still determined. But when I even got to the practical part, of course, when you try out for cheerleading you have an audience. During that time, each time that I would come on the floor to try out, I was called names. There were many acts done to distract my attention that I made.
Huntley:
So you were taking the place of some other young white girl so that competition then created the division. What was your relationship with others on the team?
Webb:
It was something that we had to go through. Initially, it was distasteful, but based upon my attitude with adjusting, not only adjusting to being a part of that type of system, but adjusting them, because even though I knew that I was Black and they were white and I knew the difference, I still had a cordial attitude, and I still tried to blend. Initially, there was one particular cheerleader that had more communication and interaction with me and then it start trickling through the others, but I think I was a contributing factor with all of that because if I had retaliated in any form or fashion, it would have defeated my purpose totally, but that is what the movement of Dr. King taught me.
Huntley:
What were your teachers like?
Webb:
Prejudiced. They were.
Huntley:
You were the only Black student in five of your classes.
Webb:
In five of my classes. They were basically prejudiced. I knew what my objective was at that time, and that was to really study hard and to try to complete my courses in spite of what I was experiencing in the course of that. Many times, I did have problems with some of my courses, but it wasn't a thing where I could go to them perhaps and get the type of assistance that I needed. I had to go elsewhere, but I kept in my mind that I needed to complete that course, or those courses. It was difficult at times, and the experience that had come from that really motivated me more.
Huntley:
Did you ever consider going back to the Black high school?
Webb:
No, it never crossed my mind. As a matter of fact, I wanted to become more active and I did. I became a member of the choir. I became a member of the basketball team, the volleyball team. I even was very interested in becoming a member of the debate team, but I couldn't mix it in with the other extracurricular activities that I had. It really motivated me more.
Huntley:
Did your younger brother, did he go to the second high school?
Webb:
Yes, he did, but at a later time. During the time that I had gone to Parrish High School, there were other options for Blacks, and at that particular time he was at the predominant Black school. However, when more Blacks had really started going to the school when it had become a better situation, of course, he was among those members.
Huntley:
After high school, why did you not decide to go to Alabama or Auburn?
Webb:
My first choice was the University of Alabama, and because I wanted to be a cheerleader, that was one of my pet peeves. I knew wherever I went, I wanted to be a cheerleader, and I had some difficulties with getting through that program. For some reason, they just didn't want a Black, and because of the difficulties that I had extracurricular-wise and with me focusing on that with being a part of my academics, I chose to go to Tuskegee.
Huntley:
What was that experience like?
Webb:
It was a great experience. I think I had the opportunity of being a part of the movement, having the opportunity to go to be a part initially of a desegregated system, then having the experience of going to a predominant Black college, it taught me a lot. Being at Tuskegee, I tried to really take what I had because of what I experienced in the movement and growing up. I wanted to use every talent that I had, and I did that, which really enhanced my personal growth mentally and socially.As a student at Tuskegee, my first year as a freshman, I got involved with student government. And not only my freshman year, from freshman year through fourth year of college and graduating. Being a part of numerous activities there, it helped my personal growth. I had these emotions in the process because for some reason, I had the idea of coming back home getting into politics because when I had initially thought about my major, of course it was political science. However, as I participated in various events, and I was not only involved on the campus, I was also involved in the community as a student and as I —
Huntley:
Recount the involved in the community piece.
Webb:
I was involved in, well, first of all, being a member of student government there really gave me an opportunity to meet several people in the community on all levels and in the community there was the community action agency, and they had different programs. I started off with assisting with tutoring some of the kids in City Hall, they had various programs there. I had become a member of the NAACP chapter there. I started working with young people, and it really became my pet peeve in a sense, and ultimately, I changed my major. I decided that I wanted to go into social work. As I completed my college education, I decided that I would return home with the possibility of still having some interest in politics.However, as I had grown older, and as I had become more involved in a sense with becoming more knowledgeable politics, I decided I didn't think that at that time that would be something that I would be interested in but I did know that I was interested in youth. I was more of a youth advocate than anything else. I took that interest and with the talents and skills that I had, I decided that I wanted to develop a youth program.
As I had come to Montgomery in 1980 to further my education I really started looking at that and I found KEEP Productions which is K-E-E-P, an acronym for Keep Entertaining Everyday People. My whole concept with that idea was to really focus and concentrate on the less fortunate youth and reach out to them to help build self-esteem, and to use their talents or the God-given talents that they had to help motivate them in building self-esteem. Had no inkling of how I would really do that but I mobilize group of young people in Montgomery and my first event was in talent show. I organized that particular talent show, and I went out into several project or poor housing areas and I recruited some kids who had various talents, and also in some other areas. I recruited some kids.
As a result of that show, particularly being my first time doing it was very successful. I decided that I would do another. As a result of me continuing to do that with the idea, and the vision that I had with focusing on you, it really escalated quicker than I had anticipated. Now, after 17 years, that worthiness of that program has been proven. I have had the opportunity to meet and work with hundreds of young people from all walks of life in building self-esteem, as well as providing various workshops which has encouraged them to go on and finish high school as well as college. Even today, I still have that program.
Huntley:
Was that a part of Alabama State?
Webb:
No, it's not. It's not a part of Alabama State. This is something I started doing prior to being part of Alabama State University.
Huntley:
How was it funded?
Webb:
Self-sufficient. There were many opportunities for me to become incorporated, but I decided that based upon the way in which the program was being handled, I had to support many businesses and parents through the years, and I wasn't quite stable in terms of me holding onto that program as long as I have. When the idea of becoming incorporated was being handed down to me, I just wasn't comfortable with that idea at that time, but the program has survived well being self-sufficient. Anything that we do, we have to go out and get the funds. However, in many instances with various things that we wanted to do, particularly with workshops, bringing resources in, or even putting on various shows, we've had a lot of support from the community.
Huntley:
This program has been in full since 1980?
Webb:
Since 1980.
Huntley:
Did you work with that program full time prior to going on board with —
Webb:
I did. I was employed at Alabama State in 1991, and prior to that time, my intention was basically given to KEEP Productions.
Huntley:
So now, what did you do at A&M?
Webb:
At Alabama State University —
Huntley:
I'm sorry. My mistake, I'm sorry.
Webb:
I'm coordinating student activities. My job is basically to coordinate and manage various student activities for the student body. I work in conjunction, not only with student government association, but also with various committees of the university and with Miss Alabama State University.
Huntley:
You had the opportunity to share your experiences growing up with students at Alabama State and if you have supported students.
Webb:
I've had many opportunities to share my experiences with students, and as much as over the years, you get new students to come in and others to go out. Most of it has been a big surprise. There are students there now who come to me on a regular basis wherever they hear about the book because I don't make it a point to advertise the success of my book. It's not so much because I'm modest about it, it's just that I feel that at some given point, the students will recognize the fact that I was a part of that movement, and that is beginning to happen more and more. I've had the opportunity to speak to the student body on three occasions.However, in various classroom settings from various instructors, I get the opportunity to go. That alone helps spread the news about my experiences as a child, but sometimes, it's amazing to them. They want to sit down, and they really want me to go in depth with them. But one of the things I always encourage them to do is first to read the book and then come ask me questions about it. Oftentimes, when I do have the time, I would sit and I would entertain questions. But right now, with this book being 15 years old, the book is still alive, and I'm very thankful for that.
There have been many opportunities that have been prevailed for me to again speak to young people across the country, and a lot of times when you're doing that and focusing on your personal life and your job, a lot of emphasis is not placed in your own community. Even though I have had the opportunity to speak to a number of students at various elementary, junior high, high schools in Montgomery, I'm still awaiting of the opportunity to reach out more to other students, and I do have other plans to speak to students at Alabama State University. As a matter of fact, I'll be speaking in February on three occasions.
Huntley:
Is the booking paper right there?
Webb:
Yes, it is.
Huntley:
Have you had any opportunity to speak here at the Institute?
Webb:
This is my first opportunity.
Huntley:
First time, okay. We'll have to get you back and have some program around what you've done, I think it's very significant. Well, I want to thank you for taking time out of your schedule because this obviously is a piece of history that every child should know, because what it does, it gives other people the strength to know that even at the age of six and seven and eight, that you had the audacity to question the status quo. I think you should be commended for that. So again, thank you for coming.
Webb:
Thank you so very much for inviting me.Copyright © Sheyann Webb-Christburg. 1998
See 1965: Selma & The March to Montgomeryfor background & more information.
See also Selma Voting Rights Campaign & March to Montgomery for web links.
Copyright ©
Copyright to this web page, as a web page, belongs to this web site. Copyright
to the information and stories above belong to the authors or speakers.
Webspinner:
webmaster@crmvet.org
(Labor donated)